Next month I’ll be 26 years sober and whilst I have always been grateful to AA for the connection, the support and the opportunity to be there for others, I have never really ‘worked’ the steps. After about 5 or 6 years I didn’t really go to meetings, either. I came back to meetings about a year ago. Mainly because I felt I needed connection with ‘my tribe’. People who generally don’t know how to stop but think it important that they do and who want to share useful tips about living useful & thoughtful lives. I’d always mostly enjoyed meetings and the kindness and graciousness I usually found there. I’m still an atheist but with an open mind to the complexity and mystery that is the universe and life. I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve always taken from AA what I’ve found useful and left the rest. So far, it seems enough for me to have fully accepted that I can’t drink sensibly (not just in my head, but in my heart too) and to ensure I take steps (pun intended) to connect with others, do the things that create a useful and congruent life and stay chill about the outcome.
I am almost 19 years sober ( nothing mind altering). I too have never worked the steps and although I continue to attend AA meetings 1x-2x a week and find them and the fellowship incredibly helpful, I find no current need to embark on that journey. AA has taught me that one never knows what’s around the next corner so that may change at some point in the future. Take what works for you and leave the rest. It’s a big tent!
Couldn’t agree more! I’m nearly 14 years sober and dove deep in AA for 2 years. I stepped away for several years but continued to be in contact with my sponsor and also had a strong Zen meditation practice. I’ve decided to start going to a few meetings a week for exactly the reasons you stated. Thanks for your insigt and inspiration.
Your words are so wise, Katie. I second the other commenter on trying different meetings. I was taught: “If you like everyone in AA, you’re not going to enough meetings.” Everyone does recovery differently, and shaming should never be part of it. And nobody should be bullied into labeling herself “alcoholic.” The ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Thanks for your wonderful work!
The way I've come to interact with any recovery program is like dealing with a pushy salesman: no time to think or ask questions, or follow my own instincts? Adios.
Of course it's not a sales pitch. But when it is conveyed that way, that's when the push back kicks in.
Thanks for mentioning programs other than AAA. I was exposed to it in the past as a professional and did not like it and did not like the slogans so thank you for mentioning smart recovery.
I drank for 20 years, went to AA for 2 months and left for reasons I won't go into here. The longer I've been alcohol free (8.5 years) the more I thank myself for trusting that I needed to have no part of AA.
The advice I'd give is, trust your gut. Don't talk yourself into doing something that doesn't square with you and be wary of people who are pressuring you. There is no magic set of rules to getting and staying sober. As with all things in life, we learn as we go.
This is such a great response. I was lucky in that my sponsor told me if I didn't feel comfortable talking to him, I could share it with a therapist, priest, friend, anyone. He told me the point was to get all the things off my chest and that's what would bring the relief.
I went to AA meetings everyday for about a year. I'm down to 3 or 4 a week now and that seems right for where I am today. I do enjoy some of the other fellowships but also just spending time with sober people. I have a standing Friday lunch with a guy I met in AA. While not technically a "meeting" it helps both of us stay sober and we have a lot of laughs doing it
What a great answer to a difficult question. I’ve been around the rooms for over three decades. No one is an expert on this program. We all make mistakes trusting your gut is really important. One suggestion I have is if you are in a large city check out different meetings. Every meeting has a personality and a complexion. There there are men’s meetings women’s meetings Gay meetings, straight meetings, mental health meetings check it all out somewhere in there there might be a fit for you, but don’t let anybody in the program bully you that is frowned on by those of us who have a clue keep asking questions that’s very important for my mental health. Good luck!
ive been to some meetings and i do find them helpful, especially for connection, but the steps make me uncomfortable for the exact same reasons 🌱thankyou xx
Rule 64. Don't take yourself so seriously. The steps helped me see what needed outside help. My sponsor was there to help me understand the steps, and learn the new language of recovery. When I share at a meeting, I do so in a general way, what is like, what happened and what it's like now.
Honesty is the big cracker. I need tp be honest with myself and others. I hope U.I. finds the fellowship they need.
I gasped when I read the line about people claiming all issues are solved after completing the steps. As if! I'm not in AA, but in every 12 Step fellowship I've been in, people have practically emphasized the complete opposite. Our lives don't magically become problem-free after completing the steps. But (and this is a big "but") what keeps me and many others coming back is that we're told we'll be able to meet our issues much better, with far more trust in our process, more dignity, and more grace. This has been true for anyone I know who's completed the steps. This isn't to say the program is perfect or the best fit for everyone; I've just never met someone who got zero/negative benefit from completing all the steps.
Also, there's no objectively right timeline for completing the steps. I've met people who claim to have formally gone through them 12 times in 2 years (!??!?!) and others who have only done so once in 20 years. I fall more into the latter camp because, as the writer shares, there's been so much "stuff" to sort through, grieve, tend to, etc., that it just has to be slow going for me. There's nothing wrong with that (in fact, trying to rush it has often been counterproductive, at least for me). And therapy (including some EMDR, though arguably very little) has been a MUST in my case, in addition to recovery. I find that both benefit enormously from the other.
Really appreciated this answer. This is so true: “I have some experience with EMDR, and I know how exhausting and potentially destabilizing the process can be. It’s a little like shaking a snowglobe: All the trauma that had settled on the bottom lifts and spreads haphazardly through the water, closer to the surface than it’s been in years.”
in June I collected my 40 year chip. I did AA intensively for a couple years, read the big book once then moved to Africa where AA didn't really exisit. During COVID I was taking severe strain and felt like I needed a meeting. Being a bit slow to work shit out I tripped to the fact that there were likley AA meetings on-line. I thought I should try a mens group and stumbled onto Rule 62 based in So-Cal. In those days it was heavily leaning into secular AA with minimal God and his kid. It helped a lot, not to stay sober, I was passed that but to connect with people who spoke English like I do, and had a shared cultural brackground. I was free therapy 7 days aweek and honestly i think it saved my mental health. I have since moved on to a small group, also men that really isnt a AA group. We call it weed walkers because we go deep into the weeds with very serious topics and equally thoughtful conversations. Find yourself a purely secular meeting. 18 months is significant by any metric. As we say, its a good start. feel free to reach out if you ever want to have a conversation with an old guy. All the best. I happen to be leading today, here's my topic.
"My foot slips on a narrow ledge: in that split second, as needles of fear pierce heart and temples, eternity intersects with present time. Thought and action are not different, and stone, air, ice, sun, fear, and self are one. What is exhilarating is to extend this acute awareness into ordinary moments. The purpose of meditation practice is not enlightenment; it is to pay attention even at unextraordinary times, to be of the present, nothing-but-the-present, to bring this mindfulness of now into each event of ordinary life. Peter Matthiessen, The Snow Leopard"
We always start with a music, there is a long connection to professional music with the men in the group. Not me I'm just a geologist.
Also dual diagnosis and there are definitely times AA does not mesh well with mental health treatment.
Caveat the steps are not really about trauma (what was done to us), they are about our moral wrongs (what we did to other people). So in that sense you can address the trauma elsewhere and still work the steps.
Katie, I think Flick's approach to recovery is sub-optimal. It's a bonus to find "your people" within the fellowship, to be sure, but it works *best* for the most people when the steps are done thoroughly and in order, and progress is made in spiritual connection. Little wonder then that AA meetings are uncomfortable: People all around them are trying to use them to get better while they are...not.
That said, I am happy for them that they are sober all of these years, and I wish them all of the best. (These are simply my views based on experience and observation; I don't speak for AA.)
Keep up the interesting work and good message. I think it's great for people (such as myself) to have a place where these sorts of topics are presented.
I’m not sure if you conflated my comment with the original question Katie was responding to. Just to clarify, I don’t find meetings uncomfortable at all, I usually like them. But yes, you could be right about my particular journey, it’s always a difficult thing to judge.
This assumes a "spiritual connection/awakening" is required. It assumes that lack of progress is based on not making a "spiritual connection" and therefore only people making a "spiritual connection" are the ones comfortable in AA. It does nothing to address what exactly is making someone uncomfortable with AA, simply asking and being open to the answer would go a long way toward helping people feel better about AA instead of insisting that they are doing something wrong or are inferior because they have a question or challenge something.
Voicing discomfort absolutely does not mean someone isn't getting better, it's actually healthy to speak up.
I am one of the people who never thought AA would work for me, I thought the steps were dumb, and I didn't believe in god. And I am incredibly introverted! But I was forced to work thru step 5 in rehab, and I was shocked to find soooo many long-held resentments melt away. So when I got out, I went to meetings, took advice, and now I'm over 4 years sober. I take a lot of meetings into rehabs, and I try to be very clear: AA is not for everyone. It has saved my life, and I have many friends with longterm sobriety who have never set foot in a meeting. I love AA, and I also fully understand why some people do not. If AA's not for you, that's ok! There are many other sober communities online and off. That said, the beauty of working the steps is that anyone can do it, and you are doing them with another drunk. There's no money involved. No health insurance to deal with. Just two drunks talking to each other. And some of those steps really will help you stay sober! Even if you don't get a sponsor, you can still pray/meditate/sit in silence (step 11) and be of service to others (step 12). You can still check your actions and immediately apologize when you do something hurtful (step 10). You may find a Big Book alternative a more helpful way to approach the steps — I'm currently using "A Woman's Way through the Twelve Steps" to rework the steps, and a friend just redid her steps with a pagan version of the steps that sounded very witchy and fun. I also totally understand you not wanting to work the steps at the same time as you are processing significant trauma in therapy, because doing 4 & 5 can really bring up a lot. But before you walk away from AA for good, it might be worth talking to someone you trust in the program (or having an honest conversation with yourself) about why you're so opposed to the steps. Is is because this program is just really not for you and not what you need? Is there any part of your reluctance that's related to a fear of what you'd discover working the steps? Are you scared to open up to other people? Is it the god thing? Have you actually read the Big Book and disagree with a lot of what's there, or are you just basing your opinions on the steps on what people say in meetings? Are you scared of the making amends thing? Does part of you have a problem with step 1, admitting you're powerless over alcohol? (Because you don't need a sponsor to work that step, you're either admitting it or you're not.) All of these questions might be totally irrelevant, of course, and if dumb people in meetings are making you uncomfortable in meetings, then that's not what you need. But I second everyone saying to trying different meetings (or try a different fellowship — even if alcohol was your problem, NA or something else might be a better fit). It took me a while to find my people in the program, and sometimes I felt very frustrated that it seemed everyone had a clique and I didn't. (And I had a sponsor and was working the steps.) But the more I got involved with service, the more people I met, and now I have true friends that I can tell anything — and even if I leave AA at some future point, those women are still going to be there for me. And that's one gift of the program, at least for me.
I want to thank you for your reply as I am grateful for others point of view regarding the steps.
I truly like AA very much. I have met wonderful people and have wonderful friendships. I feel it is a fabulous program in which it teaches one how to manage in a world that lives and breathes alcohol. I have had no problem with admitting I have a problem with alcohol nor working the steps. I am a highly spiritual person and always have been until alcohol got in the way. This was when I knew I needed to stop. I then found EMDR about 9 months into AA.
I choose not to work the steps because I am racking my brain about what I have done morally wrong.
I am human and not perfect. I am the first one to admit if I have done something wrong. I am very
committed to my recovery and enjoy working with others.
I think my answer to choosing to not do the steps is because I am not a follower. I never was and when I did, following never served me well. I attribute this to my past trauma.
Maybe one day I will do the steps.
I have learned that nothing is absolute. Life changes, people change and I certainly will change over the years. This is how we grow and I am open to possibility.
Next month I’ll be 26 years sober and whilst I have always been grateful to AA for the connection, the support and the opportunity to be there for others, I have never really ‘worked’ the steps. After about 5 or 6 years I didn’t really go to meetings, either. I came back to meetings about a year ago. Mainly because I felt I needed connection with ‘my tribe’. People who generally don’t know how to stop but think it important that they do and who want to share useful tips about living useful & thoughtful lives. I’d always mostly enjoyed meetings and the kindness and graciousness I usually found there. I’m still an atheist but with an open mind to the complexity and mystery that is the universe and life. I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve always taken from AA what I’ve found useful and left the rest. So far, it seems enough for me to have fully accepted that I can’t drink sensibly (not just in my head, but in my heart too) and to ensure I take steps (pun intended) to connect with others, do the things that create a useful and congruent life and stay chill about the outcome.
I relate to this so very specifally in many ways, I could have written it myself. I am happy that you did!
Aww thank you!
I am almost 19 years sober ( nothing mind altering). I too have never worked the steps and although I continue to attend AA meetings 1x-2x a week and find them and the fellowship incredibly helpful, I find no current need to embark on that journey. AA has taught me that one never knows what’s around the next corner so that may change at some point in the future. Take what works for you and leave the rest. It’s a big tent!
Couldn’t agree more! I’m nearly 14 years sober and dove deep in AA for 2 years. I stepped away for several years but continued to be in contact with my sponsor and also had a strong Zen meditation practice. I’ve decided to start going to a few meetings a week for exactly the reasons you stated. Thanks for your insigt and inspiration.
So happy to hear it and thank you!
Your words are so wise, Katie. I second the other commenter on trying different meetings. I was taught: “If you like everyone in AA, you’re not going to enough meetings.” Everyone does recovery differently, and shaming should never be part of it. And nobody should be bullied into labeling herself “alcoholic.” The ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Thanks for your wonderful work!
The way I've come to interact with any recovery program is like dealing with a pushy salesman: no time to think or ask questions, or follow my own instincts? Adios.
Of course it's not a sales pitch. But when it is conveyed that way, that's when the push back kicks in.
Thanks for mentioning programs other than AAA. I was exposed to it in the past as a professional and did not like it and did not like the slogans so thank you for mentioning smart recovery.
of course! i’m just glad there are different options out there
I drank for 20 years, went to AA for 2 months and left for reasons I won't go into here. The longer I've been alcohol free (8.5 years) the more I thank myself for trusting that I needed to have no part of AA.
The advice I'd give is, trust your gut. Don't talk yourself into doing something that doesn't square with you and be wary of people who are pressuring you. There is no magic set of rules to getting and staying sober. As with all things in life, we learn as we go.
This is such a great response. I was lucky in that my sponsor told me if I didn't feel comfortable talking to him, I could share it with a therapist, priest, friend, anyone. He told me the point was to get all the things off my chest and that's what would bring the relief.
I went to AA meetings everyday for about a year. I'm down to 3 or 4 a week now and that seems right for where I am today. I do enjoy some of the other fellowships but also just spending time with sober people. I have a standing Friday lunch with a guy I met in AA. While not technically a "meeting" it helps both of us stay sober and we have a lot of laughs doing it
What a great answer to a difficult question. I’ve been around the rooms for over three decades. No one is an expert on this program. We all make mistakes trusting your gut is really important. One suggestion I have is if you are in a large city check out different meetings. Every meeting has a personality and a complexion. There there are men’s meetings women’s meetings Gay meetings, straight meetings, mental health meetings check it all out somewhere in there there might be a fit for you, but don’t let anybody in the program bully you that is frowned on by those of us who have a clue keep asking questions that’s very important for my mental health. Good luck!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ive been to some meetings and i do find them helpful, especially for connection, but the steps make me uncomfortable for the exact same reasons 🌱thankyou xx
I’m so glad this was helpful!! Keep on keeping on!
I'm in the middle of the recovery journey and I have been reading your work 💕 And I wanted to say congratulations on your sobriety 💪💯🌱
Thank you! 🙏 I hope it helps you on your journey💕
🙏🙏
Rule 64. Don't take yourself so seriously. The steps helped me see what needed outside help. My sponsor was there to help me understand the steps, and learn the new language of recovery. When I share at a meeting, I do so in a general way, what is like, what happened and what it's like now.
Honesty is the big cracker. I need tp be honest with myself and others. I hope U.I. finds the fellowship they need.
I gasped when I read the line about people claiming all issues are solved after completing the steps. As if! I'm not in AA, but in every 12 Step fellowship I've been in, people have practically emphasized the complete opposite. Our lives don't magically become problem-free after completing the steps. But (and this is a big "but") what keeps me and many others coming back is that we're told we'll be able to meet our issues much better, with far more trust in our process, more dignity, and more grace. This has been true for anyone I know who's completed the steps. This isn't to say the program is perfect or the best fit for everyone; I've just never met someone who got zero/negative benefit from completing all the steps.
Also, there's no objectively right timeline for completing the steps. I've met people who claim to have formally gone through them 12 times in 2 years (!??!?!) and others who have only done so once in 20 years. I fall more into the latter camp because, as the writer shares, there's been so much "stuff" to sort through, grieve, tend to, etc., that it just has to be slow going for me. There's nothing wrong with that (in fact, trying to rush it has often been counterproductive, at least for me). And therapy (including some EMDR, though arguably very little) has been a MUST in my case, in addition to recovery. I find that both benefit enormously from the other.
Yes!!!! I would like to have a word with the person who told the letter writer that!
Truly!! Like.... WUT.
Really appreciated this answer. This is so true: “I have some experience with EMDR, and I know how exhausting and potentially destabilizing the process can be. It’s a little like shaking a snowglobe: All the trauma that had settled on the bottom lifts and spreads haphazardly through the water, closer to the surface than it’s been in years.”
in June I collected my 40 year chip. I did AA intensively for a couple years, read the big book once then moved to Africa where AA didn't really exisit. During COVID I was taking severe strain and felt like I needed a meeting. Being a bit slow to work shit out I tripped to the fact that there were likley AA meetings on-line. I thought I should try a mens group and stumbled onto Rule 62 based in So-Cal. In those days it was heavily leaning into secular AA with minimal God and his kid. It helped a lot, not to stay sober, I was passed that but to connect with people who spoke English like I do, and had a shared cultural brackground. I was free therapy 7 days aweek and honestly i think it saved my mental health. I have since moved on to a small group, also men that really isnt a AA group. We call it weed walkers because we go deep into the weeds with very serious topics and equally thoughtful conversations. Find yourself a purely secular meeting. 18 months is significant by any metric. As we say, its a good start. feel free to reach out if you ever want to have a conversation with an old guy. All the best. I happen to be leading today, here's my topic.
"My foot slips on a narrow ledge: in that split second, as needles of fear pierce heart and temples, eternity intersects with present time. Thought and action are not different, and stone, air, ice, sun, fear, and self are one. What is exhilarating is to extend this acute awareness into ordinary moments. The purpose of meditation practice is not enlightenment; it is to pay attention even at unextraordinary times, to be of the present, nothing-but-the-present, to bring this mindfulness of now into each event of ordinary life. Peter Matthiessen, The Snow Leopard"
We always start with a music, there is a long connection to professional music with the men in the group. Not me I'm just a geologist.
Also dual diagnosis and there are definitely times AA does not mesh well with mental health treatment.
Caveat the steps are not really about trauma (what was done to us), they are about our moral wrongs (what we did to other people). So in that sense you can address the trauma elsewhere and still work the steps.
Katie, I think Flick's approach to recovery is sub-optimal. It's a bonus to find "your people" within the fellowship, to be sure, but it works *best* for the most people when the steps are done thoroughly and in order, and progress is made in spiritual connection. Little wonder then that AA meetings are uncomfortable: People all around them are trying to use them to get better while they are...not.
That said, I am happy for them that they are sober all of these years, and I wish them all of the best. (These are simply my views based on experience and observation; I don't speak for AA.)
Good thing the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking!
Yes it is a good thing. And it's also a good thing that the language in that tradition you just referenced was changed to drop the word, "honestly."
But it's a better thing that the 12 steps--which is what makes AA, well, AA--exist.
Meetings are just a vehicle for the message.
Sure, I just believe that different approaches work for different people and getting any value out of the program is worthwhile
I can get on board with that.
Keep up the interesting work and good message. I think it's great for people (such as myself) to have a place where these sorts of topics are presented.
I’m not sure if you conflated my comment with the original question Katie was responding to. Just to clarify, I don’t find meetings uncomfortable at all, I usually like them. But yes, you could be right about my particular journey, it’s always a difficult thing to judge.
In response to Numbers Station by Roddy Boyd
This assumes a "spiritual connection/awakening" is required. It assumes that lack of progress is based on not making a "spiritual connection" and therefore only people making a "spiritual connection" are the ones comfortable in AA. It does nothing to address what exactly is making someone uncomfortable with AA, simply asking and being open to the answer would go a long way toward helping people feel better about AA instead of insisting that they are doing something wrong or are inferior because they have a question or challenge something.
Voicing discomfort absolutely does not mean someone isn't getting better, it's actually healthy to speak up.
I am one of the people who never thought AA would work for me, I thought the steps were dumb, and I didn't believe in god. And I am incredibly introverted! But I was forced to work thru step 5 in rehab, and I was shocked to find soooo many long-held resentments melt away. So when I got out, I went to meetings, took advice, and now I'm over 4 years sober. I take a lot of meetings into rehabs, and I try to be very clear: AA is not for everyone. It has saved my life, and I have many friends with longterm sobriety who have never set foot in a meeting. I love AA, and I also fully understand why some people do not. If AA's not for you, that's ok! There are many other sober communities online and off. That said, the beauty of working the steps is that anyone can do it, and you are doing them with another drunk. There's no money involved. No health insurance to deal with. Just two drunks talking to each other. And some of those steps really will help you stay sober! Even if you don't get a sponsor, you can still pray/meditate/sit in silence (step 11) and be of service to others (step 12). You can still check your actions and immediately apologize when you do something hurtful (step 10). You may find a Big Book alternative a more helpful way to approach the steps — I'm currently using "A Woman's Way through the Twelve Steps" to rework the steps, and a friend just redid her steps with a pagan version of the steps that sounded very witchy and fun. I also totally understand you not wanting to work the steps at the same time as you are processing significant trauma in therapy, because doing 4 & 5 can really bring up a lot. But before you walk away from AA for good, it might be worth talking to someone you trust in the program (or having an honest conversation with yourself) about why you're so opposed to the steps. Is is because this program is just really not for you and not what you need? Is there any part of your reluctance that's related to a fear of what you'd discover working the steps? Are you scared to open up to other people? Is it the god thing? Have you actually read the Big Book and disagree with a lot of what's there, or are you just basing your opinions on the steps on what people say in meetings? Are you scared of the making amends thing? Does part of you have a problem with step 1, admitting you're powerless over alcohol? (Because you don't need a sponsor to work that step, you're either admitting it or you're not.) All of these questions might be totally irrelevant, of course, and if dumb people in meetings are making you uncomfortable in meetings, then that's not what you need. But I second everyone saying to trying different meetings (or try a different fellowship — even if alcohol was your problem, NA or something else might be a better fit). It took me a while to find my people in the program, and sometimes I felt very frustrated that it seemed everyone had a clique and I didn't. (And I had a sponsor and was working the steps.) But the more I got involved with service, the more people I met, and now I have true friends that I can tell anything — and even if I leave AA at some future point, those women are still going to be there for me. And that's one gift of the program, at least for me.
Hi Cari,
I want to thank you for your reply as I am grateful for others point of view regarding the steps.
I truly like AA very much. I have met wonderful people and have wonderful friendships. I feel it is a fabulous program in which it teaches one how to manage in a world that lives and breathes alcohol. I have had no problem with admitting I have a problem with alcohol nor working the steps. I am a highly spiritual person and always have been until alcohol got in the way. This was when I knew I needed to stop. I then found EMDR about 9 months into AA.
I choose not to work the steps because I am racking my brain about what I have done morally wrong.
I am human and not perfect. I am the first one to admit if I have done something wrong. I am very
committed to my recovery and enjoy working with others.
I think my answer to choosing to not do the steps is because I am not a follower. I never was and when I did, following never served me well. I attribute this to my past trauma.
Maybe one day I will do the steps.
I have learned that nothing is absolute. Life changes, people change and I certainly will change over the years. This is how we grow and I am open to possibility.
Oh, and I still don't believe in god, and mostly no one cares.